Links:

Book into my autumn programme Time for the things that matter starting 4th October 2022.

'Reclaim Time to Read' 2022 reading challenge:  https://www.helenbeedham.com/2022-reading-challenge

Helen's business book: The Future of Time: how 're-working' time can help you boost productivity, diversity and wellbeing

Susan on Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanroomprofile/

Susan's website: https://www.susanroom.com/

Transcript:

Helen: My guest this week is Susan Room, former business leader and now a voice and executive coach who helps professionals feel, look, and sound more confident and present. She gained her professional certified coach accreditation with the International Coaching Federation and holds a Master of Fine Arts degree in Voice Studies from the Royal Central School of Speech and Drama. Susan's clients include global financial services, tech, pharmaceutical and media companies where she works one-to-one and with groups to help mainly women to speak up, get heard and get on. Susan began her career in Paris, working in press and marketing roles at the United Nations University and the International Chamber of Commerce before she took up international marketing roles in the UK. She was later a member of the executive committees of Danish facilities group ISSAS, property partnership Jones Lang Wootton and Lafarge Tarmac where she was group marketing and commercial director. Susan speaks fluent french, is a mother, wife, and an amateur jazz singer.

Welcome to The Business of Being Brilliant Susan!

Susan: Helen thank you so much. It's a great pleasure to be here.

Helen: It's lovely to have you on the show and it's also nice to chat to a fellow Southeast of Englander, because we discovered in our early conversations that we have a couple of things in common. We don't live a million miles from each other and our children have both at different times attended the same school. So it's lovely to make those personal connections when we're meeting and getting to know people for the first time.

Susan: Absolutely and it's a reminder, isn't it, of how very connected we are, even if we don't know each other formally, there are often many things that connect people and yeah, it feels great because we're from the same neck of the woods and there's nothing like having a school in common to feel connected with someone I think.

Helen: Yeah, absolutely. And I don't what it's like where you are but it's slightly sweltering outside here so my recording studio is nice and toasty this morning! And people have heard listening to this a very quick summary of your professional career and your work life. Can you tell us something unexpected about you that others may not know, that's happened to you at work or at home?

Susan: Gosh, yes, so this is quite personal but I'm going to share it because I think it can be inspiring for other women. I discovered I was pregnant when I was 18 and a half weeks pregnant. So in, let's say, the late 1990s I'd had a corporate career, I'd got married quite late in life and I was told categorically that I wasn't going to be able to conceive.

And so with my husband, we went and bought a French farmhouse to focus our minds and have a new project and grieve and move on and buying that French farmhouse I think was the magic ingredient because yeah, I, I felt pregnant. And because I was so convinced that it wasn't a possibility and I'd rather blanked it out, I just didn't tune into the fact that I might be pregnant. And when I went and got checked out, I was told yes, 18 and a half weeks. And that was I think probably the biggest surprise of my life and also the biggest joy of course.

Helen: Wow what an amazing story. Thank you for sharing that and I can't begin to imagine a) well, how difficult it is to hear the news that you're not going be able to have your child - although we've talked before and my husband and I were given the same message as well, many years ago, and we now have a daughter - but also then to discover again, having emotionally and mentally tried to move on and plan your life without children to then discover you are not just pregnant, but you're that far into a pregnancy, just short of your 20 week scan which would be a second scan. That must have been astonishing.

Susan: Yeah, absolutely. And as you were speaking there, I was thinking in those times my body and my mind were obviously very disconnected because my body was clearly doing things that my mind was denying. And it's interesting because now the work I do is very much about mind and body connection. So mind, body, voice, everything is connected and the more we tap in and listen to all of those things and how they work together, the more rich our learning and the more rich our coaching or our work with other people. So, yeah, that's for me, a really interesting thing to notice right now, I was very disconnected. The two were really disconnected then.

Helen: Yes. I've heard lots of stories in the press as you do read about people often younger teenagers who hadn't planned on their pregnancy not realizing that they were pregnant and you often think, well, how can that be? But I know from many different stories that there are often lots of very good reasons why they hadn't discovered that straight away and really interesting to hear your experience of that. Thank you.

And another thing - to move on to your professional life - that's quite astonishing is that you explained to me when we spoke that you became a member of an executive committee of a global business at just 32, which is mind boggling. That's incredible! Can you tell us a little bit about how that came about, how you developed your career and got into those leadership roles so quickly?

Susan: Yeah, well, actually I don't know how I did it! All I can say is I have always been a bit of a rebel. So when I left university my first degree in '82, I didn't do the milk round, I didn't fancy being a graduate and going onto a graduate scheme with a big company. I branched out and just decided I was going go to Paris because I'd spent years studying and visiting France, where my father lived for many years and I wanted to speak French and even if I was going do something quite menial, I wanted to live the life in Paris. So that's what I did. And I managed, I think, just to get some really interesting roles, particularly with the International Chamber of Commerce, did a lot of travelling, met a lot of very influential business people, working in the press office, really learning completely on the job.

And when I decided to come back to the UK in 1990, I suppose that network, my knowledge of a wide range of business policy issues which I'd acquired during my work in the ICC press office that almost allowed me, I suppose, in retrospect to leapfrog and to join ISS Europe - huge facilities management company and Waldemar Schmidt who was the CEO at the time invited me to join the Executive Committee.

And I am forever grateful to him and still very much in touch with him, for his belief in me. And he obviously saw something in me that allowed him to invite me to join the ExCo at that young age. I have to say it was quite daunting once I'd said yes, realizing what I'd signed up for! But it was a wonderful time of my career actually.

Helen: Fascinating. I was just going to ask, how did it feel when you said yes and then found yourself on the ExCo? Was it quite terrifying to suddenly be in executive committee meetings and did that feel like a big transition to get your head round?

Susan: Yes, it did although again, my work with the ICC, because I'd been interviewing and networking and speaking with some very senior business people and politicians, you know, the ICC is one of those very large influential organizations. It's not the International Cricket Conference... whatever it is...

Helen: The other ICC!

Susan: Yeah. And somehow I'd built my confidence and presence around very senior people and that didn't phase me, but of course the ICC is a not-for-profit. It's a non-governmental organization that lobbies the UN and other intergovernmental agencies on behalf of business, it's not a business.

And so definitely when I went into my first ExCo meeting at ISS, I was thinking, this is corporate, this is commercial, they make a profit here, they don't make a surplus. And I also remember vividly the first away, strategy away weekend for the Europe management team and I was asked by Waldemar to do a presentation on marketing and I had to craft something that was going to really land well and add some new insight, fresh learning to a bunch of guys, because they were all guys who were very successful owners and operators of cleaning companies in Europe. So I had a mix of cultures and languages but a lot of very experienced guys in the room that I, I had to engage around marketing! Because that was my role was to try and bring these disparate businesses together under a common brand, get them to buy into Waldemar's corporate vision and I remember that was a pretty sleepless night before I stepped out and did that presentation. But I was still there for a number of years after, so I guess it kicked off quite well.

Helen: Yeah, that's fantastic to hear. And what I love about your story, about how you've progressed in your career is that it shows really well to other people that you don't have to go down that very well-trodden route of university degree and then into a graduate role and then working your way up a corporate ladder. I'm hearing more and younger people think about going in, straight into apprenticeships, business apprenticeships, and getting that work experience straight off.

And thinking back to your corporate roles, what was it that made you stay in an organization? What was it that kept you there? Even if the package or the whole thing wasn't perfect a hundred percent. What was it about the way people worked together or the way people acted that made you want to stay?

Susan: That's a great question and the answer is really clear to me because in a couple of instances, I didn't stay very long with organizations and it was because the values were not there. Our values didn't align. And when I was younger, I was lucky enough to join ISS at a time when I didn't really understand what my values were or what corporate values were. But I just got a really good sense, a chemistry, a feeling that I was going to enjoy working with the people and the culture of ISS - certainly then, I'm less connected with it now - was very respectful, strong values, good rewards, also clear boundaries. Of course, ISS is Danish so influenced a lot by those Scandinavian principles of already a blurring of work and home lines, which in the UK back then those lines were very, very separate; whereas I would go to Copenhagen and people would be bringing their dogs into the office and their children into the office. And they would be downing tools at four o'clock and going and playing tennis and going to spend time with their families. So for me that worked incredibly well and it was only later when I left ISS and joined other companies where the values were different that I was less inclined to stay.

Helen: That's so interesting and I know the Danish work culture has always been one that is celebrated for its work life balance and in fact, the Nordic cultures generally. So it's really interesting that you've had that experience and can compare it to other cultural experiences in organizations. And you mentioned a, a few minutes ago that when you were on the Executive Committee, you were the only woman and it was predominantly men in the room and very male-dominated industries that you worked in. And I think you've said to me before that that in part was a factor in you then later on deciding to transition into a different career. Could you tell us a little bit more about that transition and what you do now?

Susan: Yeah, absolutely. So where to start? Yes. I have firsthand experience of how it feels to be in a room where you are surrounded by very vocal men, many of whom of course are hugely intelligent, hugely experienced and have a lot to say, but many of whom perhaps are not as good at including and involving everybody in the room, let's put it that way! And yeah, as I left corporate life and took some time out to have a family and ran a business doing some consulting work and then as my son got older and went away to school, I then decided that I wanted to reengage with corporate life but on my terms and I retrained first to be an executive coach.

And within a very short time of beginning my ICF coach training journey, I became fascinated by the correlation between what we think, which is effectively what executive coaching is there to help people think more clearly, more strategically, more confidently. And so what we think, how that correlates or influences what we say, how we say it, both vocally, verbally, and physically. And I found myself getting so interested in this, that I ended up auditioning for a place at the Royal Central School of Speech and Drama on their Voice Studies degree, which is actually designed primarily for people to learn how to coach actors. So the cohorts are full of much younger people than me who normally have a musical theatre background or an acting background, and they go and do a one year or a two year Masters to learn how to coach actors. But I auditioned, I got a place and I embarked in my late fifties on this whole new career and this journey into voice and body language and speech and that's what I do today.

So I combine exec coaching - what's going on in here - with how do we show up physically? How does that affect the words that come out of our mouth? And then how do we use our voice, which is the most underrated superpower we have to choose how we're going to say something. And that's effectively what I do today and I'm particularly keen on working with women although I work with many others too, and indeed any underrepresented groups: young people, I've been doing a lot of pro bono coaching with young people because the voice as I say is such an underrated power and unless you are a trained public speaker or a singer, you probably don't have a great insight into what your voice is capable of, or indeed how to use it and play it like the instrument that it is or warm it up to play it like the instrument it is. And yes, I've become very interested in, particularly in women's voices, the anatomy of a woman's voice, the way pitch and tone and pace and speed and volume are perceived and really helping women embrace their voice, own their voice, not find it because they haven't lost it, they just need to use it. And I'm on a bit of a mission to enable them to do that more so that we hear more women's voices, not just in boardrooms, but in society as a whole.

Helen: Yes. Thank you for explaining that transition and the work you do. And what is it you hear or see your clients talk to you about that they find difficult in their working lives and how do you help them with that? Could you give me one or two examples?

Susan: Yeah, sure. So I think very much in line with your book, one of the key topics that comes up quite often in coaching is how people manage their time. And your book really resonated with me and my clients and I've been talking about it in fact, because clients often come to the sessions with a "I can't manage my time, despite my best efforts".

And then we learn that some organizations think it's okay for diaries to be available for anybody to book time. So one of the key things that I might be coaching around is if that's the culture of the organization and there's an expectation that people can just book your time without consultation or any involvement from you, then what can you do to firmly, warmly, likeably push back and manage your boundaries so that you are in charge of your time, because it is our greatest asset and it's so precious, we need to protect it. So that is one of the very frequent topics in my coaching conversations right now and helping people to understand that the time is like a budget. You know, when you talk to financial people they say, well, I'm able to manage my time a bit more easily because I guess in their minds, there's a pot of something - in this case money - and once it's spent or allocated then there's none left. And if you try and overspend then you get overdrawn and that's not a good place to be. So this is, I think, a really useful metaphor for us to consider. We only have a limited amount of time and if we actually map the amount of time required to really deliver on those commitments we've made, let alone take on new ones, against how much time is realistically available once you take out time for eating and sleeping and nurturing yourself, let alone going on holiday, there is usually a huge deficit. And the more focused we can become on that, the easier it is for us to manage our boundaries more effectively because there's only so far you can pull a rubber band before it snaps.

Helen: Absolutely, I couldn't agree more and I think that metaphor of the bank account is a great one. I know in my book, I talk about it as a finite asset that people have to decide how they're going to invest it. And a big part of that is saying, what are we not going to invest our time in? And that's across an organization.

But as you say, it's actually for each of us every day To be asking ourselves the same question and we inevitably fall, many of us into the trap of thinking time is a bit elastic and we can keep putting things into our future time commitments and then end up when we get to that day or time totally overcommitted or really squeezed and. And inevitably the thing that falls out of the remaining time we have left is downtime or leisure time; and we are not very good when we ,do get leisure time either, we tend to fill it up with stuff and purposeful activity, et cetera. So how do you help people to say no, particularly if they're in an organizational culture, which is very full on, very expecting of people to be available at short notice, outside of normal working hours. Could you share a tip or two that listeners might be able to put into practice?

Susan: Yeah, well, I'm actually going to mention here the work of William Ury, that's U R Y and I draw on his work quite a lot and particularly what he calls his "positive no". And it's a three part process which involves a yes, a no, and then a yes, with a question mark. And the way that Yuri explains it is the first yes that you say is not to others all the time. I mean, clearly if your boss or if there's something mission critical and you deem you have to say yes, or you want to say yes, then you're going to say yes to the person who's asking you to do something. However, Yuri encourages us to get far clearer on what are our red lines? What are our boundaries? What matters to us? And the clearer we can get on those things the more inclined we are, the more we galvanize our resolve to say yes to those things. And that then implies saying no to other people and obviously that's not no in a way that damages the relationship and it might not even be an explicit no, I can't do that, but it's perhaps I'm not able to do this for you within that timeframe. So you are implicitly saying no. And that leads on to the third part, which is the yes question mark, which is you offer something in return. So you might not be able to do this but how about you do that? Or has the person who's asking you to do something thought about some other people who might be able to help. So you are collaborating but within boundaries that also work for you rather than becoming known as the person who always says yes, and we know how they tend to attract more and more work because they always say yes. And that little phrase, we teach people how to treat us, I think is worth remembering here. The more we say yes, and we are seen to be the person who always does that, the more we are telling people effectively, it's okay to keep asking me. So I think this little model is one useful way of reminding ourselves that we too have boundaries and values and it's okay to say no. Again, Yuri's work suggests that people are fearful about saying no because they fear it's going to damage your relationship but actually we are more likely to damage the relationship if we take on too much and then we burn out or we can't deliver to the expectations, our own and others'. So I like frameworks, I like models, they make sense of things that can otherwise feel messy and Yuri's model is one that I particularly like.

Helen: Yes, it's a great one. I've not come across it before, but I really like it because it sends that message that even if you can't say yes then and there to the request that somebody is making of you, you are getting across that you want to help them, but you're also being respectful of your own - and their - needs as well, around time or availability or whatever.

Susan: So I think when we push back and we say no to others, and we perhaps ask them questions that help them to get clearer on what is driving their request and particularly what is driving their deadlines, it can be incredibly helpful. Because we know how busyness sometimes overflows and people come to us with multiple requests that aren't particularly well thought through and by pausing and asking questions to get clarity on what it is we're being asked, are we the right person to do it, have we got the capacity, if we haven't, what needs to fall away in order for us to do this if this is the new priority ... We're actually helping ourselves and others working with us, often our manager, to get clearer on what it is they're asking and what the consequences and implications are of their requests. So it takes courage but it's ultimately really powerful for individuals, teams and organizations.

Helen: Yeah, I love that. I totally agree, I think you're spot on. A lot of people say that this whole overwhelm, overload, busyness and time pressure at work, a lot of that boils down to poor planning, poor scoping and poor commissioning of work. So I think the more we can constructively say, just explain to me again why we need it by X date or could we think about doing it a different way? It's not just about managing your own time and work but it might help get to a better way of working that works better for everyone.

Susan: Yeah. Yeah. And interestingly in your playing back there I heard questions, you know, closed questions. Could we do it this way? Or would it be okay to do that? And in my work, I'm always encouraging women to think carefully, well anyone really, but particularly women who might have more of a tendency to be asking for permission, could we do it this way? Could we do it that way? Let's do it this way, or how about we do it that way? Which you can hear my voice, there's a confidence there, there's a direction but there's also an inclusivity because I'm asking an open question but I'm doing it in a way that doesn't ask for permission.

Helen: I love that bit of live coaching, thank you! And I think that's going to be very helpful to people listening. And is there any other advice you would share around how we can adapt the way we speak to better influence others or manage our work commitments or come across as more authoritative, as you say, whilst remaining inclusive and not becoming overly dictatorial?

Susan: Yeah. Yeah. No one wants to be overly dictatorial for sure. I think there's a huge amount I could say but the real magic I think is to get to know what's in your vocal toolkit. Do a little bit of reading and understand some of the basic things about your voice pitch for example. So Google it and you'll find lots of resources, lots of research. When we free the body of tension, the pitch goes down, our voice pitch lowers because the voice box drops. And there's also something to do with the vocal folds. I don't want to get too much into the anatomy but there is no doubt that when we are grounded, when we are centered, when we release tension in our shoulders, in our neck, in our belly, in our knees, in our toes, which we might be clenching subconsciously when we are in a room full of people and we're not able to get our point across or we're being shouted over ... Top tip, just try and release the tension, sit up tall, open the body, the shoulders so that the rib cage can expand and contract and get all that lovely fuel, you know, breath is fuel for the voice.

If we're tight, we're constricting the ribcage. So just ground, release, open the body and your pitch will go down. Making great eye contact too is another tip because your voice goes where your eyes go. And if you're looking down like this and not being seen then your voice is going to carry less well.

And think about tone. We can be very warm and strong; a warm tone of voice can move mountains when you're saying things that are difficult to say or controversial, unpopular. Having that warmth in your voice, whereby you understand that what you're saying is difficult, controversial, unpopular but we're in it together. You know, it's this idea of collective responsibility that you cover so beautifully in your book around collective responsibility for time. We can talk about things that are unpopular in a voice that really conveys that we have a collective responsibility for things. So, yeah. Pitch and tone. Couple of thoughts there.

Helen: Wonderful. Thank you, that's so helpful. And I'm sure we can draw on that advice in our relationships outside of work as well whether as a parent or a partner when we are having a difficult conversation perhaps, or needing to reach an agreement on something where we are in different positions or different starting points. So that's lovely advice thank you.

And what resource of any kind would you recommend to others that you've found particularly helpful at some point in your career?

Susan: So now I know about it I would highly recommend the vocal warm-up. And that is something that actors do before they go on stage, it's a part of their daily routine. If you've done public speaking training, you'll know a little bit what I'm talking about but it is about warming up the voice in the same way that if you're going to do a workout, you're likely to warm up your muscles or if you're going to play an instrument, you're going to tune your instrument. So a vocal warm-up: and it doesn't have to be long and complicated it can be a tiny habit, 30 seconds where you are doing things like a humming. And then you are having a little playful humming on pitch, exploring and opening up your pitch range and feeling the vibrations on your lips. Speech is about vibrations; you are opening up your face, you're making yourself much more interesting to listen to and people will be more engaged, not just with what you're saying, but also how you are saying it, facially and vocally.

Helen: Thank you. And for people who've been listening to the podcast, if they'd like to find out more about your work or get in touch professionally for some advice or to connect, what's the best way for them to do that?

Susan: So through my website, www.susanroom.com or LinkedIn. So I'd love to see your listeners on LinkedIn; Twitter, you can also follow me on Twitter. And yeah, later in September I'm going to be launching some new workshops and also piloting an open programme for private individuals. So website is a good place to keep up with my news.

Helen: Fantastic, and we'll put a link to your open programme in the show notes as well and your website so people can find you easily. Thank you so much Susan for joining me on the podcast today, it's been such a pleasure talking with you and hearing more about your corporate life and then your transition into your voice and executive coaching. And thank you so much for sharing many practical pieces of advice and things that we can do to boost our own impact and presence and confidence at work. You've been a brilliant guest! Thank you for joining me.

Susan: Oh, thank you so much. It's been a wonderful way to spend some time. So thank you for inviting me, Helen.