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Transcript:

For this final episode, I’ve picked out some nuggets shared by all my guests in this third series, in answer to the question: what are the things people need in order to want to stay in their organisation? Here are 8 critical factors to reflect on in your own career, or if you’re leading a business, that could make the difference between a retention strategy that works and one that doesn’t.

Firstly, there’s always a ‘deal’ to be negotiated between employer and employee, that needs to work for both parties. When I spoke with Jane van Zyl, CEO of the national charity Working Families, she explained how this deal has shifted since the pandemic and has become more individualised, less one-size-fits-all. Here’s Jane:

Jane: We've known for some time, because we saw this during the pandemic, that our employer members innovate to change ways of working to support their people. It was really very interesting, the first lockdown in the summer of 2020. We asked employers what they were concerned about and what we found fascinating - and I suppose unsurprising because the employers that we work with really are interested in ensuring that their employees are happy in their work - was a real focus on wellbeing. And during the pandemic we saw our employer members innovate to support their people. And those employers have now embedded those new ways of working and reaped the benefits: a reduction in real estate and travel costs and increases in productivity. We're also interested to see that forward thinking employers are building flexible working into their recruitment processes because our research says that 70% of UK parents wouldn't even apply for a job that didn't have flexible options listed up front.

And anecdotally, we know that the pandemic allowed employers to have insight into the lives of their people. All of those Zoom and Teams calls where somebody appeared in the background, a baby wanting something, a child demanding a second biscuit, somebody's cat or dog or partner, or the postman, all of the things that we know happen in our own lives, we suddenly saw in everybody else's lives too. We know particularly that during the pandemic those with caring responsibilities were forced to juggle homeschooling and a job. And there was lots of talk about during the pandemic that we were all in the same storm. And that of course was true to an extent, but what we felt very strongly was that we were not all in the same boat. The experience of people living in either shared accommodation or in really small flats in the centre of towns with no access to green spaces it was much, much more difficult. And anybody with small children who were trying to work at the same time was very difficult.

And so we think many employers and line managers gained that new perspective into what balancing work and caring actually looked like. And although we are the charity for working families, everybody has a family whether it's you and your goldfish or whether you or not, you have self care responsibilities. There always needs to be that acknowledgement that we're human and that we have lives and needs outside of our roles.

Helen: Yes, absolutely. And it's great to hear that your research is confirming that employers haven't just dropped all that acknowledgement and wellbeing support that they put in place during the pandemic, but have actually embedded it and are taking it further. And it sounds like a big thing that's changed is this recognition of individual needs. You can't treat everybody in the workplace the same and assume that the same model of work is going to fit and help everyone perform at their best. It sounds like that's been a big shift in employers' awareness and approach to managing employees.

Jane: For me, the thing that's tied to that is: we as a society talk about equality, diversity, and inclusion, particularly within the workplace. But what I've noticed is that the language is now changing to say that we want equity because giving everybody exactly the same thing is not necessarily fair. It's very much more around what is it that you as an individual need. And Working Families as a charity would say that there needs to be a negotiation between the employer and the employee in the sense that there is a job of work to do. And that's something that we sign up to do when we go to work for an organization and a really good quality organization will treat us as a human being and will have conversations with us about what's working and what's not working.

Helen: My first guest on this series, Randall Peterson commented on the importance of negotiation too. Randall is Professor of Organizational Behaviour and Founding Director of the London Business School Leadership Institute, and in this second piece of advice on how to make people want to stay, he describes how employers need to help people negotiate their identity in the organisation and how to draw on key moments in the employer/employee relationship to help people ‘find their fit’.

Helen: What are the most effective things that leaders, including boards but also executive teams can do to make employees want to stay? Are there things that they can do that have a real impact?

Randall: Well of course there are some things and research is very clear that different organizations have better and worse, more effective, less effective, more engaging, less engaging cultures, and the cultures that are most successful generally are the ones that allow people the kind of space that we're talking about here. Because it's always a kind of negotiation between the individuals who have interest and a way of being, et cetera, and the needs of the organization and how do we bring them together?

So for example, one of my colleagues here has been doing work looking at just simple things like how we do employee inductions. Our traditional view of this is 'here are the 5,000 things you need to know'. 4,900 of them you will forget by the end of the day because everything is new. So why do we do that? Well, that's the way it's always been done. Rather: why don't we say to people 'here are the 10 things you really, really need to know, and let's talk about how you are going to negotiate who you are with the organization. What do you think you bring? And here's what the needs are: how are we going to make this come together? It turns out it reduces turnover, it improves performance, it ticks most every box. And it's not about just making people feel good. It is about helping people negotiate their identity in an organization. Because if people feel like they fit, the sense of belonging and fit is a thing that keeps people there. I belong in this organization. I fit in this organization. Right? As opposed to, I'm not sure I fit, but I know exactly what I need to do to get a pay rise. That kind of stuff is okay; fit, belonging - that's where the magic happens.

Helen: Yeah, that's fascinating to hear. And I've read around that topic as well and companies are realizing that it's about those key moments they have to create a really rewarding experience. And obviously induction day is, is a really key moment. And it sounds sounds from what you describe that instead of reading out here's the handbook and here's the policies you need to be aware of and leave people feeling a bit stupefied, it's actually about helping them have a meaningful experience on that first day that leaves them feeling actually really enthused about, as you say, being part of this community and feeling like you fit in.

Randall: Yeah, because you know, the other problem with the 5,000 rules is 'here's your straight jacket' is what you're really saying and people don't want a straight jacket. Nobody has ever wanted one. You tolerate it if you don't have many great options but these days there are a lot more options than there used to be for our parents and our grandparents in terms of employment. People will walk to some place where they don't have to wear the straight jacket.

Helen: Isn’t that a great reminder from Randall to focus on the 10 things an employee needs to know? I think organisations get lazy in that they send so many communications across so many channels without really distilling down the few critical things that they want people to know. No wonder people often feel pulled in too many different directions and across competing priorities.

My guest Susan Room, former business leader and now a voice and executive coach, talked about how if we actually mapped the amount of time required to really deliver on these various commitments we're being asked to deliver, let alone take on new ones, against how much time is realistically available once we take out time for eating and sleeping and looking after ourselves, let alone going on holiday, there is usually a huge deficit. Time is not elastic, it’s finite, and as Susan says there's only so far you can pull a rubber band before it snaps. So the third thing people need is help to manage their boundaries and to say no. Here’s Susan.

Helen: So how do you help people to say no, particularly if they're in an organizational culture, which is very full on, very expecting of people to be available at short notice, outside of normal working hours. Could you share a tip or two that listeners might be able to put into practice?

Susan: Yeah, well, I'm actually going to mention here the work of William Ury, that's U R Y and I draw on his work quite a lot and particularly what he calls his "positive no". And it's a three part process which involves a yes, a no, and then a yes, with a question mark. And the way that Yuri explains it is the first yes that you say is not to others all the time. I mean, clearly if your boss or if there's something mission critical and you deem you have to say yes, or you want to say yes, then you're going to say yes to the person who's asking you to do something. However, Yuri encourages us to get far clearer on what are our red lines? What are our boundaries? What matters to us? And the clearer we can get on those things the more inclined we are, the more we galvanize our resolve to say yes to those things. And that then implies saying no to other people and obviously that's not no in a way that damages the relationship and it might not even be an explicit no, I can't do that, but it's perhaps I'm not able to do this for you within that timeframe. So you are implicitly saying no. And that leads on to the third part, which is the yes question mark, which is you offer something in return. So you might not be able to do this but how about you do that? Or has the person who's asking you to do something thought about some other people who might be able to help. So you are collaborating but within boundaries that also work for you rather than becoming known as the person who always says yes, and we know how they tend to attract more and more work because they always say yes. And that little phrase, we teach people how to treat us, I think is worth remembering here. The more we say yes, and we are seen to be the person who always does that, the more we are telling people effectively, it's okay to keep asking me. So I think this little model is one useful way of reminding ourselves that we too have boundaries and values and it's okay to say no. Again, Yuri's work suggests that people are fearful about saying no because they fear it's going to damage your relationship but actually we are more likely to damage the relationship if we take on too much and then we burn out or we can't deliver to the expectations, our own and others'. So I like frameworks, I like models, they make sense of things that can otherwise feel messy and Yuri's model is one that I particularly like.

Helen: Yes, it's a great one. I've not come across it before, but I really like it because it sends that message that even if you can't say yes then and there to the request that somebody is making of you, you are getting across that you want to help them, but you're also being respectful of your own - and their - needs as well, around time or availability or whatever.

Susan: So I think when we push back and we say no to others, and we perhaps ask them questions that help them to get clearer on what is driving their request and particularly what is driving their deadlines, it can be incredibly helpful. Because we know how busyness sometimes overflows and people come to us with multiple requests that aren't particularly well thought through and by pausing and asking questions to get clarity on what it is we're being asked, are we the right person to do it, have we got the capacity, if we haven't, what needs to fall away in order for us to do this if this is the new priority ... We're actually helping ourselves and others working with us, often our manager, to get clearer on what it is they're asking and what the consequences and implications are of their requests. So it takes courage but it's ultimately really powerful for individuals, teams and organizations.

Helen: As well as knowing that they’re focused on the priorities, the fourth thing people need is to know that their efforts are making a positive difference, and to see evidence of that. My guest Ariel White-Tsimikalis, talked very passionately about how important it is to help people feel connected to a sense of purpose, to know that their work matters and is contributing to a better world in some way. Ariel is is a corporate finance lawyer, a partner at the global law firm, Goodwin Proctor and a specialist in ESG (environmental social governance) matters and here she explains how she helps her team to see the bigger picture and to manage their lives outside of work too.

Helen: And from what you see here, what do people also struggle with in their working lives or working environments today? What do you notice about that?

Ariel: I think it's probably two key things. I think certainly what we're seeing now, younger generations, they want to find more purpose in what they do. I think they want to feel like they're having a bit more impact and I guess what I would challenge people to think - because I confess, it was slightly of my mindset too before - but you write off the legal profession, for example, or the corporate aspect of it, maybe, because you don't think you can have impact in the way that you might if you went and worked at an NGO or something like that.

And I think that's where I would challenge people to say oh, ok. And the way I feel I've been able to do it is actually through being a corporate finance lawyer, I can actually have quite a bit of that impact for the people I advise and the teams I run and the community I operate in.

And so I think it's being creative about and less dismissive I think about having things aren't always, as you expect. And actually you can build, you can create your own reality a little bit more than people recognize. And so I think people are struggling with that, and I think COVID obviously people had a lot more time to themselves at home , thinking about things. Which is good actually. I think that those are all really good conversations to be having with yourself. But I think certainly in our industry people feel disconnected to what they're doing. And in fact, it's something that I very much think about as I'm building a practice and building a team, how much time I try to spend with my members of my team, do they understand the strategy, they understand the bigger picture and they feel bought into what we're all trying to build? And I think that gives them a sense of of purpose and impact and connecting with why we're up at 11 o'clock at night looking at a term sheet. It is because it's part of this bigger thing that we're building, which is going to be pretty exciting.

So I think finding that connection and I think those of us who run teams and those of us who are in leadership positions need to be really mindful of that need of people to feel connected to what they're doing and that they're having impact through what they're doing. So we need to think about how we empower them, how we have those connect conversations and make sure that we are answering a little bit of that 'why' or helping people discover that 'why' and find it within our teams and within our professions. I think that's the challenge for those of us in leadership positions within financial services sectors.

And then secondly, I think people, and I'm maybe speaking a bit more to the female here is, is recognizing that  it's hard, it's really hard to be a working mum. I have a five year old, it's really hard to have young children when you're in a senior role. And then the intersectionality of having other characteristics of being a diverse individual in the field, compounds all of that, let's be honest. But recognizing that is the challenge and I think, again, those of us in leadership positions need to look out for those situations and help people. And I do try to do that as much as I can. I think that's one of the things that gives me so much fulfillment.

Helen: One of the defining characteristics of today’s world of work, in knowledge-based organisations at least, is the fragmentation of our time and attention as we zip between calls and meetings, apps and tasks and all the while we’re receiving incoming notifications and messages from multiple channels. It’s brain-frying stuff that leads to cognitive overload, anxiety and unproductive long working hours. This is a problem that my guest Rob Hatch knows only too well. Rob is author of ‘Attention! the power of simple decisions in a distracted world’ and a coach for business owners and executives, and in this fifth piece of advice he explains how organisations help people to focus on the priorities and reduce distractions.

Helen: Yeah, because as you make the point in the book, if we give into that temptation as that thought pops into our mind, oh, I must not forget to do X. ... and a lot of people would argue if it only takes a couple of minutes, that's more efficient way of doing it. But then you make the point that you are more likely to be distracted while you're just doing that one thing and then end up doing another two or three things and then forget actually what it was you were trying to do in the first place. And you've just discovered half an hour has just been lost from your precious time.

Rob: Half an hour's been lost and, and the focus that you had. So there's this idea of residual attention; just even that task of switching to the one thing, even if you did come back, finding your place again, carrying over whatever it was that you just did, even if it was something simple, there's still some thought energy that's spilling over from what you just did.

So, first and foremost, it's about the individual. But the communication part, in your book, you talk about having a healthy time culture and I don't know always where that comes from, but I think it starts with individuals starting to slowly, subtly make those declarations of boundaries and communicate things like 'I want to meet the expectations of this work for you. However, when this happens, it's pulling me off' and maybe even working with your supervisor, if you're not in a position where you've got control over the culture, shaping the culture.

Again, looking at and maybe not accepting and opening up conversations about the way information flows on email. If your organization is treating email as though it's a chat feature that's probably not a good, healthy way to use email. And even in Slack do we need to have every notification for every Slack message that comes in inside of a group? Because every little ding and buzz whether you think you can ignore it or not is pulling you into that or pulling you away. So thinking critically about how information flows and opening up those conversations is a good place to start.

Helen: So let’s say we’re happy with the deal we’ve negotiated, we know what the priorities are and we’re able to focus on delivering those in a way that doesn’t eat too far into our home lives and our time outside of work. So far so good, but there are still some missing ingredients. My guest Jacqueline Taiwo, experienced private equity lawyer and co-founder, Chair and Chief Executive of the organisation Black Women in Asset Management,  knows exactly what else is needed for people to want to stay. The sixth thing is to feel part of a community where they can be themselves and have the conversations they need in order to succeed at different stages of their lives and careers.

Jackie: I think the thing that drives me now and really helps me thrive today is community. And I think that's another thing that I had been lacking and looking for when I started my legal career here in London and I think certainly through Black Women in Asset Management and what I try to impart on young people who are starting their careers is to find that community early on. We talk a lot about mentors and sponsors, people above you who have gone that journey, who you can go and get insight from: that is really important, but it's also important to build relationships with people who are going on the journey alongside you. People you can call on to once again, be that sounding board, provide insight, because it really, really makes a difference in how you see yourself in your career and your ability to be resilient through some tough times, and to feel like you enjoy it, because if you don't have that community and if you feel like you're alone and you're by yourself, it will just feel lonely and a bit icky inside, I think. And so that's certainly part of what I do now for black women working in the investment industry globally, really.

And I think another important aspect of feeling good about what you're doing is to give back and to, as we say, lift as you climb, because a lot of research shows that by giving and helping others, it makes you feel good about yourself. But I think in the industry where I come from, it also helps you feel like you are improving it by helping, perhaps other women, other people of colour, or just young people come into this space and be a source, a resource for them.

I think that once again makes you feel like the work you're doing is important, it makes you feel good about the work that you're doing. So I tell for myself and I tell others, build that community because that will really help you, I think, thrive in your career.

But going back to the mission of Black Women in Asset Management ultimately we want to see more black women in senior leadership roles within the industry, particularly in the investment decision-making seats, once again, whether that's portfolio manager or fund manager, an investor.  And so we do spend a lot of time thinking about how to foster and encourage that. While we have a great number in our membership that is very, still very tiny percentage of the industry. I'm not naive about that. But there's a lot of opportunity within there because I've talked with so many women at different stages of their careers at the early, mid, senior, and while everyone is different, you do pull out certain themes that folks are facing early in their career as they grow. And you hear from the mid-level women how they got through that. And you hear from the senior level women, how they got through that.

And I think a lot of it, once again, is just connecting them so they can start having these conversations and so you're not going through it alone, or you're learning from the people who have been been through it. And my theory of impact here is that by getting these women connected that will keep more women in the industry and help them advance.

Helen: That sense of connection and community and meaningful conversation is critical to how people feel about their jobs and their employers, more so post-pandemic than ever. People want more from work than just churning through the day’s tasks and ticking the boxes on their personal objectives. They want to feel and experience a richer relationship with their work and the people they work with, to feel recognised, trusted, valued and rewarded. My guest Geraldine Gallacher, CEO of the Executive Coaching Consultancy and author of the new book ‘Coaching women: Changing the System, Not the Person’, shared this seventh piece of wisdom which is about how to create a sense of engagement now and over the longer-term.

Helen: What are you hearing now from the many people that you support through coaching about how they're feeling about their work lives? What matters most to them when they think about staying in their jobs?

Geraldine: I think for employees, for most people, it's about engagement. You stay in a job now because you feel engaged and you feel a sense of belonging with the team. I coach mainly leaders, and I think what leaders are grappling with is they understand that this engagement is important and an easy way to create engagement, of course, is in person. But they recognize that they want to give people the autonomy and the flexibility because if you don't give them the flexibility, I think people will vote with their feet. So you have to give that flexibility. But at the same time, how do you create the engagement if most of the time you're on screen?

And I think that's a real dilemma that certainly in your book that's one of the things that you talk about is how do you, in the future of work? I think coming into work will be more about creating anchor days where everybody does come in and where you maybe concentrate on personal development, or team dynamics. You concentrate on anything which has got a team dimension to it. Because what is really pointless is travelling in on the tube, coming to work, having just spent an hour and a half and then getting on Zoom and yet everybody scrambling for the quiet rooms to get on Zoom to do calls. I mean, that just doesn't make any sense, does it? And it's really hard to change it up, it's almost like the rhythm of work needs to change quite consider. considerably.

Helen: Yeah. And I think to make that future scenario, which I completely agree with, work well, requires a lot more transparent conversations about the different things people work on and what is the right environment for each of those things. When do we need to be in a more face-to-face collaborative environment? So therefore, you almost need to add a different level of time management and working pattern management. Definitely at the team level. And instead of just having a blanket, this is the way it's going to be, but actually much more negotiated around the team. Okay. We need to work it differently and figure out what would work best for the team, but also reflects everyone's needs and preferences as well.

Geraldine: I also think Helen I don't know how you feel about this, but I often have very, very good intentions about going in. The thing is if you get thrown a curve ball first thing in the morning because you know you can do things on Zoom, it's much easier to think, well actually I could do home.

And so I think what's quite tricky is that it's almost like short term requirements versus a longer term need. I know in the long term it's better for me even over the course of a week I know I've had a better week when I'm in, and I've been in more often. However, things come up for example, if you have a whole day of meetings and two of them are on Zoom and two are in-person, and the in-person ones are postponed. So you think, well, why would I go in? So then you change your diary accordingly. And I think it's very difficult because you almost need to have some kind of boundary set for you where you have to go in for some elements because otherwise I think we all default to the easiest and it's got to be easier to be at home. It's just got to be easier to be at home rather than Yes, I agree.

Helen: I totally agree with that short term gain versus longer term gain. I think it's a really interesting way of framing it and it's always more convenient not to commute anywhere, isn't it?!

Geraldine: Absolutely!

Helen: The 8^th and final piece of advice on how to make people want to stay comes from my guest last week, Victoria Livingstone, who is Chief People Officer for the EMEA region at the 5^th largest advertising agency network globally, Dentsu International. Victoria leads major business transformations and knows that during times of organisational change and upheaval (which is pretty much all of the time these days), the most important thing to get right is to bring people with you. It’s a lot harder than it sounds, as Victoria explains, but if you don’t get this right, the business will suffer.

Helen: for a lot of people, change is very uncomfortable, quite threatening and not something necessarily that we've chosen for ourselves, it might feel like it's being imposed on us. So I'm curious to know what's hardest for you as someone leading that kind of change, and then also what helps others get on board and really embrace it positively that, I guess, makes the biggest difference to the business at the end of the day?

Victoria: I think that the hardest thing is trying to ensure that there's alignment on the change and the transformation. If I had to pinpoint where things go wrong, it's where there's too many different versions of the change going on; there's competing or conflicting priorities.

 I think I've also seen if there's insufficient prioritization given to the change, insufficient budget, lack of senior buy-in. And I think that is always hardest to try and ensure that if there is a change and transformation programme, that it is really very, very clear and that all of the elements align to it that ensure it's being set up for success.

So the leadership team are all on board; there's clarity on the goal; there's clarity on how long it's going to take; that it fits with the realities of the strategy, the vision, the culture, the products, the services; and the reality of the external environment, whether that be economic, political, or competitive; and that that change programme is really prioritized and given the just focus, attention, resources, and support that's necessary and that the change management element isn't under-resourced or under budgeted or ignored. For any transformation programme to work effectively, it genuinely needs a people and culture element to it. I've yet to see one work, of a significant size, when that element isn't catered for. And I think the change element of it that's within that 'people and culture' strand is so critical in helping people to understand the change, helping them to understand the why, being able to connect themselves with that vision and that purpose, and ensuring that the culture is shifting with it.

I think that a culture evolves with the transformation and you can end up with a tweaked way of working, a tweaked culture, a tweaked value proposition for employees. Without it, it's just moving chairs around almost and without really resolving or moving to a different direction. Any strategy or transformation change has to bring people with it and people need to be engaged or on board or otherwise, they will fight against the transformation. And any end state, any future strategy or purpose or vision will require a shift in mindset and behaviours and how people will work with each other and how they will feel and how they will behave and act in that future state.

And it is absolutely fundamental to actually achieving any future strategy or transformation that a company is clear on how it will shift people in their organization, and how they will work and that culture, that value proposition. Those are some of my critical success factors whenever I'm working with transformation programmes.

Helen: So there you have it: 8 immensely valuable pieces of advice from experts in their fields on how to make employees want to stay and to do their best work. I hope you’ve found these conversations helpful as you think about your own career or the team or organisation that you are leading. Let me know which piece of advice resonates most for you?

I’m very grateful to all my guests in this series for sharing their wisdom and their own career stories with you and me. Series 4 will be back in Q1 next year with a new line up of brilliant guests. In the meantime, enjoy the run up to the festive break, the time out with friends and family over Christmas and New Year and hopefully, a bit of time to yourself to reflect on how this year has been for you and what your hopes are for next year. If there’s something we might collaborate on, or some networking we can do together, please do get in touch and let me know.  See you on the other side!