Links:

Book your place on my February 2023 group coaching programme Time for the things that matter.

'Reclaim Time to Read' 2022 reading challenge:  https://www.helenbeedham.com/2022-reading-challenge

Helen's business book: The Future of Time: how 're-working' time can help you boost productivity, diversity and wellbeing

FT's Working It podcast episode with guest Steven Bartlett

Jacqueline on Linked In

Black Women in Asset Management's website and Linked In page

'Feel the fear and do it anyway', by Susan Jeffers

Transcript:

 Helen: I'm delighted to welcome Jacqueline Taiwo as my guest this week. Jackie is co-founder, Chair and Chief Executive of Black Women in Asset Management, a global organization supporting the advancement and retention of black women working in the asset management industry. They provide over 900 members with tools, resources, and a supportive community to enable them to thrive in their careers. An experienced private equity lawyer, Jackie started her career in the law at Kirkland & Ellis in London. After several years there, she took a career break and set up her own online beauty retailing business later returning to the law as Associate General Counsel at investment management firm TowerBrook Capital Partners. Jackie is passionate about helping other women to reach their potential and progress into senior leadership roles. She was named Advocate of the Year in the 2021 Women in Finance awards and was also listed by Real Deals in 2020 as one of 40 individuals making a notable impact on improving diversity and inclusion in asset management. Welcome to The Business of Being Brilliant, Jackie!

Jackie: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here with you, Helen. Thank you for inviting me.

Helen: Oh, it's lovely to have you here on the podcast and you've packed a lot into your career to date haven't you?! A lot of variety, but also you're on a really impressive mission with your current organization as well. Can you tell me a little bit about that from your own experiences? What that career path has been like and how it helped get you to what you're doing today?

Jackie: Yeah, sure. So my career path in many ways, for quite a long time felt like I was actually on a conveyor belt and taking a lot of steps in my career that I knew would get me ahead. Even though my background, so I'm American obviously; I grew up with what the Brits would call working class in New York in a region called Long Island. And I didn't have any family members working in private equity, which is the industry I ended up building my career in or family members who went into law. But I was always very smart and very ambitious and a big dreamer. And so I ended up going to a very good university, Columbia, which is an Ivy League school, and I, I share this story that I'm about to share once again, to show that in many ways I shouldn't be where I am today.

So when I was applying for college and university I knew I was smart, I knew I wanted to go to school and I was looking at going at a few schools in my state, but they were considered state schools. Very fine institutions, but not the top ranked universities in the country. And it was my brother at the time who said, actually you have really good grades, you're really smart, you're doing all of these things in high school, you should apply for all the Ivy League schools. I think you'll get in. And I said that sounds good but those application fees are like $50, $100 each. We don't have that kind of money. Who's gonna, how am I gonna do that?

And he said, don't worry about it. I will cover it, we'll make it happen. You just apply to those schools and I did. And because of that intervention, I was able to get into a few Ivy League schools, not only Columbia and I had an amazing choice when I graduated high school. And it was at Columbia that kind of piqued my interest in business and finance. I was actually in the engineering school, but did a switch midway through in terms of my career focus. After Columbia, I worked in corporate finance; I knew I wanted to go back to grad school, get an MBA, and that's what I did. I actually received my JD-MBA from Northwestern in Chicago. Did another switch; I graduated right after the financial downturn and I thought, okay law may be the safer career here. Felt like the lawyers were still , you know, in high demand. And so I ended up pursuing law after I finished my graduate degree, which brought me to London.

I came to London, not knowing anyone, I really just wanted to try something different. I had worked at that point in New York and in Chicago and wanted to really expand my horizons. As I said, I'm someone who has been driven by this desire to not only follow my dreams, but try to take the path that seem perhaps a little bit uncomfortable or new and things that really stretch and challenge me.

And for me, moving to London was that and it changed my life. I'm still here, what is it 13 years later now, and I've built my career here and I'm married and have two beautiful daughters. I think the moment that changed for me though, once again, I finished grad school, started this legal career was having achieved quite a lot, as what happens as you start to get older and have kids and family and all these different pressures in your life and competing interests, starting to think really about what does success mean for me? And what does it look like for me? Which led to, as you described in my bio, the move to leave law, to start my own business, but then to actually come back and then build a second successful career in law at TowerBrook Capital Partners which was fantastic.

But it was in that process that a few things emerged: one, I'm really, really passionate about women's advancement and empowerment and mentorship. That has been like a theme throughout my life since I was in New York, mentoring, giving back, helping others reach their fullest potential because that happened for me through the intervention from my brother and a few other mentors who helped guide me to where I am today.

And another interesting thing happened, which was I felt for a long period of my career, I was chasing some sort of title or measure of success that was pretty externally defined, whether it's, oh, I wanna be partner at this law firm or managing director or this type of entrepreneur. I would say around maybe a year or so ago I kind of let that go, which led to my most recent change which was resigning from this amazing position, an amazing firm to leading this organization Black Women in Asset Management, sure we'll get into more of it later. But it's really brought me to this place where I am now not really chasing title and status but chasing impact, which feels just right for me. And yeah, I'm sure we'll unpack a little bit more throughout the podcast.

Helen: Thanks so much for telling that story, it's so interesting to hear. Did your brother ever turn around as you were opening those offers from the Ivy League universities and say, I told you, so I told you you could do it?

Jackie: Oh yeah. I don't even think he was surprised. It was more of an 'of course!' from his perspective. Definitely. And I think once he's told me to apply and I started researching and seeing what the typical SAT scores were, I was like, 'oh yeah, I do fit this criteria!'. So I think even by the time when I was accepted, I knew that I was a good candidate. So yeah, it definitely changed my life in many ways.

Helen: Yeah, that's something I hear time and time again, actually, is that people's direction in their careers and their lives often turn on an unexpected encouragement or supportive push from somebody close to them. So it's interesting to hear that you experienced that particularly at the very start of your studies. And the other thing that strikes me listening to your stories is you've studied so hard. You've acquired a lot of degrees...

Jackie: Yes!

Helen: Which I'm very impressed by! And you're also very savvy and up for change. I was struck that you said after you graduated during the financial downturn you had a look at what sectors were looking like, and you thought it's time to maybe try a different sector. I think it's very hard to let go of a plan that we've been investing time and effort and money in and find a way to switch quite quickly. So I'm really impressed about that. And I guess along the way through those milestones and experiences that you've described, what's helped you to thrive in your career and to enjoy it? Has there been anything in particular that's really enabled you to flourish in your roles?

Jackie: That's a good question. To piggyback on what you just said, I do think that that is something that has definitely defined my career. I am not afraid to embrace change or to move or to let things go that I don't think are serving me or to move into an unknown. That I've definitely done since I've been 18 in many ways I had to do that constantly just by nature of, you know, showing up as a black woman in finance and law where there's no role models, not no, but very few role models or examples or models of success that look like me or have come from my background. So I think having that experience and having that experience when I walked into Columbia in the engineering school where definitely, it was a class of a hundred people and I was the only black woman really fostered I guess that fearlessness to take those risks and to move into things that could appear uncomfortable or risky.

But I think the thing that drives me now and really helps me thrive today is community. And I think that's another thing that I had been lacking and looking for when I started my legal career here in London and I think certainly through Black Women in Asset Management and what I try to impart on young people who are starting their careers is to find that community early on. We talk a lot about mentors and sponsors, people above you who have gone that journey, who you can go and get insight from: that is really important, but it's also important to build relationships with people who are going on the journey alongside you. People you can call on to once again, be that sounding board, provide insight, because it really, really makes a difference in how you see yourself in your career and your ability to be resilient through some tough times, and to feel like you enjoy it, because if you don't have that community and if you feel like you're alone and you're by yourself, it will just feel lonely and a bit icky inside, I think. And so that's certainly part of what I do now for black women working in the investment industry globally, really.

And I think another important aspect of feeling good about what you're doing is to give back and to, as we say, lift as you climb, because a lot of research shows that by giving and helping others, it makes you feel good about yourself. But I think in the industry where I come from, it also helps you feel like you are improving it by helping, perhaps other women, other people of colour, or just young people come into this space and be a source, a resource for them.

I think that once again makes you feel like the work you're doing is important, it makes you feel good about the work that you're doing. So I tell for myself and I tell others, build that community because that will really help you, I think, thrive in your career.

Helen: That's really great advice and when you change and jump ship, that's part of it, isn't it too? You might have to go explore and create a new community and say goodbye to elements of your old community. And those relationships are so important, just to have someone to talk through your doubts or what you're experiencing, or, as we've already talked about to offer some encouragement and nudging you to consider things that you might not have considered. The power of conversation is just immense, isn't it, when it's with somebody we trust and respect.

And so what led you to set up Black Women in Asset Management? How did you get it off the ground? It sounds like you started running it in the margins of your then day job and obviously now you run it full time. Was there a particular trigger that led you to have this aha moment about, I need to set this up or was it a bit more organic?

Jackie: It was organic and there was a trigger. The trigger was me meeting another black woman practicing private equity law. So that was the trigger! (laughs) and it was through meeting her and then having coffee and just this realization that for so long I thought I was alone in this industry. And in that one moment wait, I'm not, I can't be, I cannot be the only black woman working in private equity or investment or in this type of law.  And so we started to host dinners around London periodically bringing together more women working in asset management. Not only in law but investment professionals, women who are in sales, investor relations, all different roles within the industry; portfolio managers, fund managers.

And within a few months we had an email list of probably a hundred women throughout London. And going back to my personality and how I approach things, I saw an opportunity. I'd never set up a network before or, or done anything like this. And what's amazing is that it's grown so well without me having that strategy or vision at the beginning. It was, I just wanna build this community. It was a need that I saw and I was just doing what I felt needed to be done to fill this need where so many of these women who at that time, mostly mid senior level, I never had an opportunity to come into a room filled with black women doing what they do, working in their industry, able to have conversations and just sense check the things going on in their jobs was similar to what was going on with the next woman. And when we talk about that belonging, I think that's how you foster it; it's through having the ability and the opportunity to build these types of relationships that are organic, where you can let your hair down and just be you. And unfortunately, so many women of colour, women, people of colour go into these careers and they have to put a guard up and don't have that opportunity to just have candid conversations comfortably.

So that's how it started; it was quite organic. And today we have, as you said, over 900 women in the network, we are formal now, I am chief executive officer of the organization. We have a lot of great sponsors and partners working with us but the beginning was women coming together for dinner and we've just blossomed since then.

Helen: Amazing to hear that. And it's testament to your entrepreneurial and 'I'm up for trying something new' spirit that you saw the need and thought there's something here. There's a way here to connect people and to help people and then figured out the strategy and the mechanics and the offering to members and stuff along the way.  That sounds so interesting. And so it sounds like you are primarily giving people this opportunity to connect, to talk to one another, a sense of community, but also helping to strengthen any skills that might support them in their careers. And you connect them through mentorship as well, right?

Jackie: Yeah. So as you said in the bio our mission is to provide resources and tools that help black women thrive wherever they are in their careers. And a lot of that is through connection so we're connecting women with each other; we're connecting our sponsors with women; we're connecting recruiters with women. We do a lot around visibility, getting women more opportunities to speak at conferences and events in the media, so a lot of connections there as well, and also an important element is giving back. So working with organizations like SEO or 10,000 Black Interns here in London where we can - whether it's doing interview workshops or lunch and learns - provide mentorship.

So that is the core of what we do is these connections because I think that that is, as I've just discussed, the way for women to thrive within their careers or to feel that they're thriving. We do a lot around career development in terms of master classes, we have a leadership development programme as well, we are launching a cross-company mentorship programme this fall. We have a lot of networking events and panels and fireside chats. And we're having our first annual conference this October during UK Black History Month on the 14th of October which is shaping up to be an amazing event.  The theme is 'Go Far Together' based on the African proverb 'if you wanna go fast, go alone. If you wanna go far, go together' once again, bring back the community theme. And that conference is really amazing because we have a panel of all black fund managers or portfolio managers, a panel of black investment professionals leading investment firms, black leaders and ESG.  So a lot of the conference is themed around building relationships, but some of it is also about putting a new face on success in this industry and visibility, raising profiles of black women and within our membership is super important. So the conference for us, it's a really great opportunity to showcase that, to showcase excellence and so that's very exciting for me and hopefully everyone that will attend.

But going back to the mission of Black Women in Asset Management ultimately we want to see more black women in senior leadership roles within the industry, particularly in the investment decision-making seats, once again, whether that's portfolio manager or fund manager, an investor.  And so we do spend a lot of time thinking about how to foster and encourage that. While we have a great number in our membership that is very, still very tiny percentage of the industry. I'm not naive about that. But there's a lot of opportunity within there because I've talked with so many women at different stages of their careers at the early, mid, senior, and while everyone is different, you do pull out certain themes that folks are facing early in their career as they grow. And you hear from the mid-level women how they got through that. And you hear from the senior level women, how they got through that.

And I think a lot of it, once again, is just connecting them so they can start having these conversations and so you're not going through it alone, or you're learning from the people who have been been through it. And my theory of impact here is that by getting these women connected that will keep more women in the industry and help them advance.

Helen: Yeah, fantastic and you've answered the question I was going to ask next, which was looking at the impact you're having and looking at the industry as a whole what would be the one indicator that tells you there's positive change coming about or greater momentum. And I think you answered it by talking about more women in those senior leadership roles and preferably investment roles as well.  And I'll pop a link to Black Women in Asset Management in the show notes and just before we finish up in our discussion, is there something that you have drawn on during your career, some kind of resource that has been particularly helpful to you that you'd like to share with others today?

Jackie: Hmm. I'll have to think about that. I think a book that actually was pretty influential for me was 'Feel the fear and do it anyway' by, yeah, I'll get that name to you. I'm sure many people have heard of this. It's quite popular. Because one, it really reframed my thoughts on when I'm doing things that are scary, because as I said, I feel like I'm always (laughs)  in a place of being uncomfortable or doing things that are new. And I think for a long time, I thought that that meant that I wasn't good at something. If I was nervous or felt fear, it was 'okay clearly, this is not something that's natural and I shouldn't be doing it' but I was very driven so I still pushed myself through. I think reading that book helped me understand that fear and those nerves or that uncomfortability doesn't mean that you're not good at it or that you can't become good at it. It's just something that you need to work through and that it shouldn't stop you. And so just that shift in perspective, I think was very, very helpful for me. And then there was a period where I was dealing with anxiety and I think this book really touches on the anxiety that comes with fear and once again, being in the spaces where you're the first or the only can be quite uncomfortable and challenging. So yeah, that book really changed my perspective on how to cope with those situations.

Helen: Yeah, that's a great recommendation thank you. I'm reading a lot; I'm on a reading challenge for the year; that's on my list to read. I haven't read it yet, but thank you for the reminder. I'll pop a link in the show notes as well. And what you say about fear and nerves when you're doing something new or something that feels stretching or uncomfortable, reminds me of a book I'd read earlier this year in my reading challenge I think it's called 'Four Seconds' by Peter Bregman, well known writer and management thinker. And one of the things that he said that really resonated with me is when we are doing something that feels scary or difficult, or we've got a degree of anxiety or a lack of confidence about it, he said, we often approach it thinking about performance. We're going to be judged on how we perform here and we worry about the performance. What will people think? What will be the feedback? How will I come across? He said, if you can switch your head into thinking about it as an experience, it grounds you much more in the moment itself. And he says to do that ask yourself the question or say to yourself, 'this is what it feels like to feel ...' And then complete your sentence, so standing on this podium about to deliver this keynote or whatever, because asking yourself that or saying that to yourself really helps you just take in what is going on, how you're feeling and makes you very present and takes you out of thinking about the whole performance aspect of it and what people are thinking and what people are saying. And I find that incredibly helpful too. So I just thought I'd add that to your excellent recommendation.

Jackie: Definitely. Yeah.

Helen: The great ways of dealing with fear, however it comes. Lovely! And how can listeners connect with you after the podcast if they'd like to get in touch professionally? What's the best way for them to do that?

Jackie: Yeah. So I'm on LinkedIn. If you just search Jacqueline Taiwo and connect with me there, or you can go to our website, the Black Women in Asset Management website, which is bwam.network. And you can see everything we're doing and look at our events and keep up to date with us there, you can also follow Black Women in Asset Management where we use that platform really as a space to celebrate and to highlight our members who are doing great things. So if you're interested in seeing wonderful things that black women are doing in the industry, definitely follow us there.

Helen: Fantastic thank you. And thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today and talking about your career and the things that have encouraged you to be brave, take the uncomfortable path, try new things. Really inspiring to hear how you've approached your working life and your theories of moving into the unknown and trying something new and finding your community. I'm sure a lot of that will resonate with our listeners and give them confidence to try a bit of that themselves as well. So thank you for being a brilliant guest!

Jackie: Thank you. Thank you for having me.